Raymond Davis

[imported_elp6n]

Very interesting look at the story from a Pakistani source. Looks like their stance may be nothing but petty pushback.

Raymond Davis case: Men killed in Lahore were intelligence operatives, says official – The Express Tribune

This link Malik clears the air on Davis within the same article says Pakistan agrees he holds Diplomatic status

[Biggin]

the two big issues are;

a) was it self-defense? If so, he should be freed ASAP and brought back here. No ifs ands or buts. If those men were really trying to rob him and pointed guns at him, he had every right to fire and should be released.
but if it was not self-defense, he should be held accountable in their court system, DI or not. I understand why DI is issued and how it is vital in international justice, but that does not excuse murder. In no way shape or form should murder not be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But its going to be very difficult to prove if self defense was truly accurate. With the enflamed passions on each side, getting the truth is extremely important but almost impossible. If it comes out the two men had assaulted and robbed more people earlier in teh day, Davis' story checks out and he should be sent home. But if the reports about the two men being intelligence agents and those men were not threatening Davis, he should be prosecuded.

b) of course, if he has DI. As of right now, the Pakastani goverment recognzies Davis' immunity but has to yet to release him until more facts are brought to light. Although I believe the DI should be irrelevant in the main scheme and what really happened should be the issue.
If Davis has DI and was defending himself, Pakistan needs to STFU and let him go.
But if Davis was not defending himself but murdering those men, we need to let him stay over there and reap the fruits of his efforts.

But I advocate the US government getting the truth. I dont trust the Pakistan government to truly try and find out the facts, in some part because I believe they do not want a revolt by their citizens even if Davis was defending himself.

So I think the facts should resolve this case. I understand the Vienna Convention, but the spirit of the act was NOT to let a man murder two men in cold blood and simply walk away from it.

[1inStripes]

I agree, but I really think the truth of the matter is going to be really difficult to ever really discover one way or the other. The fact of the matter is, Pakistan will have to decide if they they want to try Davis, and convict him, if it is worth 1.8 Billion.

[Biggin]

yeah I agree, the truth will be almost impossible to find now with all the media hooplah. I wish it didnt come to that, but now its all about politics and treaties instead of justice

[imported_elp6n]

I dont agree that DI under the Vienna Convention should let diplomats walk on heinous crimes (and throughout history that certainly has been the case). But as written, that's how it works.

If Pakistan doesnt want to play by those rules they shouldn't have signed up to be a part of that. But they did and they should follow through.

[Biggin]

It only is the case if the country refuses to waive the immunity. If a country waives it, they can be tried under the country's law.

But the Vienna Convention was written as a protection against unjust local laws and how to protect citizens of other countries from being wrongly prosecuted by local law.
Since that is not the case here, there is some issue about DI.

[imported_elp6n]

It only is the case if the country refuses to waive the immunity. If a country waives it, they can be tried under the country's law.

But the Vienna Convention was written as a protection against unjust local laws and how to protect citizens of other countries from being wrongly prosecuted by local law.
Since that is not the case here, there is some issue about DI.

I dont understand what the issue is.
The US says he has DI. Pakistan agrees that is his status (but still intends to try him, at this point). The US has not waived his immunity.

[Biggin]

if that was the case and theres no way to challenge DI, then Pakistan would have already released him. The VC is not set in stone nor black and white, so this issue will need serious scrutinize before resolution.


teh DI is in question because of an espionage issue. that is why Pakistan has not released him yet. the VC does not apply to spying and espionage, so if Pakistan can prove that he was spying they do not have to release him to the US embassy under DI laws. I dont know, I doubt a US spy would be stupid enough to shoot two men in the street of a volatile foreign nation but you never know.

[R13]

Has Pakistan even said that? From the first link...

"He did not have diplomatic immunity and was not one of the foreign security personnel allowed to carry firearms, according to the Pakistani authorities."

Haven't read anything else.

[1inStripes]

Trying to find a link I read earlier today, but one of the secretaries of something in Pakistan admitted that he had a copy of Davis's visa and that he did qualify for DI.